Lotus Sutra, Lecture No. II-10
Shunryu Suzuki Transcript
Fall 1968
Zen Mountain Center
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As a Zen Buddhist, it is necessary for us to understand the Second Patriarch Mahakashapa. The—he is—the—he is famous for his zudagyo, or in Sanskrit, dvadasa dhutagunah.1 And this—we count twelve zudagyo, and this is mostly important ways of organize our life as a person and as a member of a sangha.
The—the first one is to live in a calm place, like a forest or woods, aranyaka [“forest dweller”]. To enter aranya or a forest means after they finish their household everyone ??? after finishing their household life, their family life they would enter—they would join the group—join the religious life with people. So, to enter aranya means to start religious life, not only priests, but also everyone. That was Indian custom. Here it means to—to live like religious people do. To live in aranya.
And the second one is to support their life by begging, yathasamstrarika [“taking any seat which may be offered”]. It means that—and that mostly this is about food, and there are two more about food.
One is—the other is when you make begging, you do it—you—you have to visit houses in order [3rd: paindapatika = “living on alms”]. We should not choose, you know, house—houses. You—you should not choose someone you know or some—someone who is wealthy. Whether they are poor or wealthy or you don't know—or you don’t know, you should do it in the order. You should not change the order. This is next one.
And the fourth one is aikasanika— aikasanika [“using only one seat for meditation and eating”], it means that to make—to eat at certain time, not to eat many times. They do not eat supper. They do—they eat just breakfast and lunch.
And when you eat, you should know how much you should eat, not—you shouldn't eat too much. That is the fifth one, namatika [“wearing coarse garments”]. This is also important. We should not be greedy.
And next one is also about food [khalupascadbhaktika = “not eating after the time when one should cease eating”]. We should not eat except—we should not eat at another time, you know. You—we should eat only— [laughs] only mealtime. This is the sixth one. We should not eat or drink, except meantime. What we are doing—if, you know, tea—to have tea is our rule; might be alright. This is very difficult excuse [laughs]. Anyway, we should not—we should not be greedy, especially when we eat.
And the seventh one is about our clothes we wear [pamsukulika = “wearing clothes made of rags taken from a dust heap”]. We should wear Buddha's robe, which is made of the material people do—do not use—people throw. I think not only—not only clothes, but also furnitures and everything. When I ???. In America you—if you go to a secondhand store, you’ll have—you—you can buy quite cheaply, something which you want. So, I thought there's no need for—for us to buy grand brand new furniture, paying a lot of money [laughs], if you buy—if you pay two, three dollars, you will have. [Japanese???] This is, a kind of I think, attitude we take for our living.
And [8th: traicivarika] we should wear only three robes. When we have ordination ceremony, we, you know, receive three robes: rakusu, is some kind, rakusu. And the other kind is something like this. And we have one more which is—this is several[?] made of several pieces. That is made of five pieces. And the third one has nine pieces—made of nine pieces. Why they made this three kinds, there are many reasons maybe. In some scripture it says they wear the simplest kind when it is warm and—or hot. And when it is cold, they wear the robe made of nine pieces of material, and spring and fall, they wear five— robe made of five pieces.
Nowadays we have everyday—robes for everyday practice and robes for ceremony. But I think we are, even for a ceremony, we should not use so gorgeous [laughs] robes as we do now. I am rather ashamed of it [laughs]. But—so when I was young I didn’t—I never wear such a gorgeous [laughs] robes. When I became—no, when I took a funeral service for the first time [laughs] for—for the very rich old person [laughs], I just wear black robe with brown, you know, okesa. So, they were very angry with me [laughter, laughs]. At that time, they didn't say anything, but later [laughs], “Why didn't you wear, you know, more beautiful ones you have—your master had?” [laughs]. They know, you know, my master wear—what my master wear—wore, so, “Why didn't you wear that time?” But now I think we should say this—we should not be attached to the material or outlook of the robes. Gorgeous one is alright [laughs], a shabby one is alright [laughs]. That is—now that is my attitude, but at that time I was very much concerned about it—what I wear [laughs].
Perhaps everyone doesn’t like to wear too gorgeous one [laughs], like a actor or actress on the stage [laughs]. Do you know it? In Japan we have advertory[?] actors, you know. In—in winter, when they have not much to do, or in their lunch, they would, you know, come out to the city of—to entertain people with some gorgeous, you know, in some gorgeous—wearing, and hitting drums and bells, ,I mean, entertain people with music or a play. So I thought, “We shouldn't be like that. We are not ambulatory[?] actors” [laughs]. But, I think, this kind of attitude is—is very important, and we should not forget this point.
And those are, except the first one where we should live, is about our food and wearing. And the last three is where we should live. We should live in someplace where it is appropriate to practice zazen.
The one [9th = smasanika] is to live in—near a cemetery—cemetery [laughs]. How hard—imagine [laughter] how, you know, to think that it [laughs] is very beautiful [laughs]. But when you think there is not so good—some monotonous, you know. It’s very gloomy, monotonous place—supposed to. Where there is shrine or where there is temple—or place where there is temple or shrine or cemetery—supposed to be a very lonely, monotonous place. And where—why they live in a cemetery—near a cemetery is because they will have—they will feel more deeply about evanescence of life. Maybe they can eliminate various desires.
And next one [10th: vrksamulika] is to live under the tree—under the big tree. Maybe this is because it is cool, especially in India. But at the same time, we should not be attached to the coolness of the place.
So next one [11th: abhyavakasika = “living in the open air”] is to live in somewhere there is no trees, where everyone can see you, like a common place or square, where nothing which will protect you. This is pretty strict practice.
And the last one [12th: naisadika = “using the sitting posture for sleeping”] is not to sleep in bed, always sleep in sitting position.
Student: They can do that.
SR: Hmm. [Laughter.] They are—those are twelve zudagyo.
And you will see—you will have various question, and at the same time there are many things to think about in this area. If you understand—if you see those rules as a—as just rule—as a rule, in rigid way or literal, it may be—it will not give you right understanding. But if you think the thought—if you think about underlying thought, there are many things to think about.
This is, you know actually, how to protect people, how to keep—maintain our order, and how to maintain our system of society. If our human life it’s supported this kind of spirit, a nirvana will be perfect to peaceful world will be acquired by human being. And rigid and strict it may look, but underlying thought is very warm and full of mercy. Practicing those ways, they try to make people happy. So, just to live—to—to have bare—a simple life and have enjoyment— have joyous—joy in our life will give a limitless source of spirit for—to the people. Only when we practice our way—with live in this way and maintain our order and maintain our joy of life, then people may know it is possible to have complete joy, but in various kind of life. Even in adversity, they may feel, it is possible to have complete composure, and they will have a strong spirit or a strong faith in our human life.
And this is at the same time expression of respect. You know, we—we said February 25th is—February 15th is Buddha's nirvana day. And at a various temple they hung[?], you know, Buddha lying down on bed surrounded by many disciples who is—who are very sad. Even various animals and birds came to see him—how he is. And that he is critically ill, and when they thought him critically ill, they all cried. But we cannot find cat in it. I don’t know why, no one explained [laughs] why there is no cat, but I thought, “Where is cat?” [laughs]. I found [laughs], I asked them, you know, “I don't know why [laughs] there is no cat. Why cat didn't come” [laughs].
And someone, you know, when I was maybe sixteen or seventeen years old, they—I found some words—some expression of superficial—expression of good manner—yeah, good manner. I didn’t—at that time I didn't like monk's way, you know. Priest, they always [laughs] do like this. And it doesn’t—it seems to me they didn't mean it, you know. They do it just superficially without any feeling [laughs, laughter]. And that kind of, you know, way is—was called—is called “catlike manner” catlike manner. Cat is very, you know, gentle [laughs]—looks like they’re gentle, and very—it looks like they love it[?]. Their manner is very gentle, but not so deep. There is no strong feeling in it. They're just [laughs] go—if we say go away, they will go away. If you—if they think it is all right, you know, they may easily get approach to you [laughs]. When we—we are busy or when we are absorbed something else, cat may come, you know. They are, you know, supposed to be very sneaky [laughs] in some way. That is cat’s manner, they—someone called it in some literature. Cat’s manner, catslike manner. So, I thought, you know, that is why I thought [laughs] cat did not come [laughs, laughter] Buddha's last time.
Why did I start talk about this cat? [Laughs, laughter.] Somehow respect, you know, respect, our—to—expression of respect is not just to, you know, do like this is not just true expression of respect. To have bare life, and with humbleness—to live in humble life, bare life, simple life is already expression of respect. Do you, you know, it is the best way to express our respect to ourselves and to others. Even though we wear, you know, we live a bare life—we live—we have bare life, inside, spiritually, we are rich. That is expression of respect to ourselves and for others, you know. With the most simplest way—even the most simplest way, we can—we have possibility to give the good feeling for—to others.
So, I do not concerned about beatnik style or [laughs] hippie like style. I don’t, but only when they can express the respect to others even in that costume. And there is possibility to express respect to others in the most simple way, even they wear, you know, rag, they can express respect for others. But for—this point is missing in hippie like living. Of course, I think why they take—they have that kind of costume is to express some resistance to the old cats like manner [laughs, laughter]. So, I can understand their feeling. But instead of, you know, being antagonistic or to feel resistance to the cats like manner, they should express some respect to the truth or to the real religious life. The essential element of religious life is respect. And respect is—could be expressed various way.
To expose various part of body, you know, is maybe the expression of resistance to the catlike manner. But in that manner, something is missing. Buddhist emphasize to be ashamed of our bare, natural, you know, primitive, naïve, undefined manner. So, to respect Buddha means to be ashamed of something which we should be when we see Buddha, how perfect he was. And when we see someone who has a very respectable character, naturally, we become ashamed of our want of practice, want of attainment or acquisition. So, to become—to become ashamed of myself—ourselves means to respect Buddha. When we have no idea of religion or Buddha or perfect character, we are not ashamed of anything. So, we may enter a Buddha Hall with dirty sandal. When we know who is Buddha, we cannot do that. We will ashamed of my—our dirty feet. Naturally, when you want to enter a practice hall or a Buddha Hall, you will clean up your dress and body. Even that may not be enough, but at least that much we [laughs] can do [laughs]. That is, you know, expression of respect.
This kind of attitude maintain our order—maintain or support our warm feeling of our sangha and society. Right now, you know, what we have in our culture is a catlike culture and antagonism to the cat. “Cat, go away” [laughs]. “I don't like—I don’t like you at all” [laughs]. “Go away” [laughs]. And it is so noisy, you know. “Go away, go away, go away,” so we have to cover our ears [laughs], eyes. That is how I feel in this kind of society. If you go to San Francisco [laughs], young people are, you know, express their antagonism to the cats. You know, they hit [laughs] drum and [laughs] and dance with long hair, and, “Go away!” [laughs, laughter]. “Go away, cats!” [laughter, laughs]. Not a great kind of good feeling, you know [laughs, laughter]. If cat is one or two years[?], we will feel—feel sorry for cats, but nowadays there are too—too many cats [laughs, laughter]. Even though you [laughs]—you have—you use electric, you know, sound, it doesn't go away [laughs, laughter]. You are—they are not strong enough—the sound is not strong enough, but they have to make strongest sound, as much as possible. And “Go away! Go away! Go away!” [laughs]. That—I can understand that, but that is too noisy [laughs, laughter].
So, there must be some way to maintain our order, to have some warm feeling in our society. That is, you know, why this kind of practice of twelve zuda practices maintain—could maintain our order. This way, when we make really this kind of effort, we will have complete freedom in our society. To this point we should make our efforts.
So instead of, you know, enslaved by antagonism, we should make our effort in right order, with right spirit. This kind of spirit should be established in—in some place like Tassajara. Someone must do that, you know, or else we have no place to live. I think—and this is why we practice zazen, and in explanation of those twelve zudagyo—zuda practice.
Maybe ???? in Japanese we say zuda—zuda—zuda—zuda practice.
There are, you know, how many words of zazen, Zen or sitting: one, two—one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight character out of maybe one, two—two thousand—two—two tens of the character is sitting. You may understand how sitting, just to sit—the practice of just to sit is so important. We say zazen practice, as simple as it is, what it means is very deep, and spirit of zazen will support, will maintain our order.
And Mahakashapa is famous for his zudagyo, his kind of twelve practice. But he is not famous for his understanding of—understanding of sunyata or emptiness. Subhuti is the one who is famous for his understanding of emptiness. Or Shariputra is the most famous one. Nevertheless, you know, Mahakashapa became a successor of Buddha—supposed to be successor of Buddha himself. His practice—he devoted himself to Buddha's practice, not only zazen practice, but also zazen practice includes—which include everyday life, and spirit of maintaining order of our life as a sangha, as a human being. And he became a successor of Buddha. This point should be remembered, I think. We say, “Zen and everyday life,” but it does not mean to extend zazen practice to everyday life, but to have deeper—with deep understanding of the teaching, Buddha's spirit, we practice zazen. That is true way. Actually, there is no Zen or everyday life; Zen or everyday life is the expression of true spirit of that—Buddha—true—true spirit of to help others or to maintain our order or to support this society, human world. I think this is the reason why Mahakashapa became the successor of Buddha.
[First transcription checked and edited by Brian Fikes. All definitions in brackets are from the Japanese Buddhist Dictionary.]
1 In Wikipedia: Dhutanga (Pali dhutaṅga, Sinhala: ධුතාඞ්ග) or dhūtaguṇa (Sanskrit) is a group of austerities or ascetic practices taught in Buddhism. In earlier transcript: [junizuda = twelve zuda; gyo = practice]. Suzuki’s list is similar, but in a different order.
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This transcript is a retyping of the existing City Center transcript. It is not verbatim. The City Center transcript was entered onto disk by Jose Escobar, 1997. It was reformatted by Bill Redican (7/17/01). Verbatim version based on Engage Wisdom audio by Peter Ford 1/2025.
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68-10-00-I:
Lotus Sutra, Lecture No. II-10
(Verbatim)
This lecture probably should not be considered part of the Lotus Sutra series, although that's how it's been identified for years.
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