Lotus SĹŤtra No. I-6

Shunryu Suzuki Transcript

1968
Zen Mountain Center

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"The monks and nuns at the time being, who strove after supreme, highest enlightenment, numerous and—numerous as sand of Ganges, applied themselves to the commandment of the Sugata.”

The number 86. "And the monk who then was the preacher of the law and the keeper of the law, Varaprabha, expounded for fully eighty intermediate kalpas the highest law according to the commandment of the Sugata."

In other word, Buddha's teaching is—his teaching is eternal truth, beginningless and endless. And Bodhisattva Varaprabha expounded it for fully eighty intermediate kalpas of time, in other words, from a limitlessly long time.

Number 87. "He had eight hundred pupils, who all of them were by him brought to full development. They saw many kotis of Buddhas, great sages, when they worshipped—whom they worshipped."

"He and—he had eight hundred pupils." This is different from the prose part, this place. Prose part, the first accord[?]—it doesn’t accord with the—this part.

"Now it happened so, (page 32 [page 12]). Now it happened—it—Now it so happened, Agita, that the eight son of the Lord Kandrasuryapradipa, Mat and—Mati and the rest, were pupil to that very Bodhisattva Varaprabha—Varaprabha. Enlightenment. They were by him made ripe for supreme, perfect enlightenment, and in after times they saw and worshipped many hundred thousand myriads of kotis of Buddhas, all of whom had attained supreme, perfect enlightenment, the last of them being Dipankara, the Tathagata, the completely enlightened one." And here it said, "He had eight hundred pupils, who all of them were—were by him brought to full development. They saw many kotis of Buddhas, great sages, whom they worshipped.”

And next one 88. "By following the regular course they become Buddha in several sphere—spheres, and as they followed one another in immediate succession they successively foretold each other's future destiny to Buddhaship.

"The last of those Buddhas following one another was Dipankara. He, the supreme good of—supreme god of gods, honored by crowds—crowds of sages, educated thousands of kotis of living beings." Dipankara Buddha.

Dipankara Buddha is supposed to be the Buddha who gave juki, I explained juki already [see previous lecture]. In—in Sanskrit: vyakarana—vyakarana, to tell one's future, not destiny but future attainment. "You will attain enlightenment, and you will be born in such and such place, and will attain enlightenment, and your name will be such and such." This is juki.

And Dipankara Buddha is supposed to be the Buddha who gave Shakyamuni Buddha juki. When Shakyamuni—Shakyamuni Buddha’s—Buddha in his former life, he studied under this Bodhisattva. And when this bodhisattva came to the muddy place, Shakyamuni Buddha spreaded—spread his hair over the muddy place. Because after—after he spread many things, but mud is so wide that the rug he gathered could not cover it, so after all Shakyamuni Buddha in his former life, spreads his hair over the muddy place and let this Dipankara Buddha pass the muddy place. And this is why we bow, you know, feeling Buddha's foot on our hands, you know, three times like this. This is a Buddha.

Or another story is told, something similar, but—not so similar. Quite different, but anyway Dipankara Buddha is the Buddha who gave juki to Buddha. It may be the last buddha Shakyamuni Buddha served. The another story is there were in, you know, ancient time there were—there were great king—or maybe kings, and whose minister was very wise. And he was so wise that the king gave the half of his country—half of his world, you know, not country. Big, whole world, half of the whole world, to him. And he had a bright boy who became later a great teacher or a buddha—or a bodhisattva. Anyway, he became a bodhisattva then[?]. I don’t know what to say, a bodhisattva [laughs]. And—and he was so—he became—he was so good that his father—oh, excuse me—his father sent him to his brother’s, who—to his brother, who was a great scholar. He studied under him and became a bodhisattva. And the father was very much proud of him, and he brought him to his home and listened to his sermon. And again he brought him to the—to his former king—or master or king, who—whom he helped—the king who he helped. And he went to—they went to the border of the country because, you know, half of the country is—was his own, the other half was the former king’s country. So, they went to the border of the country, and give him a great sermon. Since then the king—the king for many hundreds of kotis of kalpas of time, sent various offering to that teacher. And later that teacher became Dipankara Bodhisattva, and that king who helped that Dipankara Buddha, was the Buddha himself. So, when Dipankara Buddha—Dipankara Bodhisattva became enlightened and true teacher of the whole world, Buddha became his disciple, and studied. And he received juki from Dipankara Buddha.

All of those story means that eternal, you know, teaching which is always with every being, from endless—from beginningless beginning to endless end. That is what it means.

And next one, "Among the pupil of Varaprabha, the son of Jina, at the time of his teaching the law, was one slothful, covetous, greedy of gain and cleverness." Greedy of gain and cleverness. This I explained already. And this—here it—it says "cleverness", but in prose part it—it—it says "praise". And original word—original text, it has two of—the original words may be—may not be the same. Because according to the result of the study of many scholars, this sutra was up—was helped—had been observed or hold[?]—had been followed[?] or has been ??? —in India has been hold[?] by some group like Zen Center [laughs] maybe. Zen Center had a special scripture, you know, and which was called Lotus Sutra. We had Lotus Sutra. And we had many branches, you know. And at Tassajara we will have—we will make some translation, at San Francisco or Los—Los Altos or Berkeley they may make translation. But—and at Tassajara we will change our translation. So, originally it cannot be— couldn’t—it was not, you know the same. It was not—there was no—the scripture they hold[?]—they used was not the same. That is why we have so many translations—so many original text and so many kinds of translation, you know. The original—we—they had of many kinds of original text. And many various people in various country [laughs] translated it, so naturally there must be many kinds of translation. It is quite natural.

Student: Are you…

SR: Thank you[?].

Student: Does the Japanese translation say and the Chinese translation, the one by Dogen, and the one in Chinese, do they stand up word for word? And just the symbolism is different? Is that so?

SR: Words is also nearly the same, you know, not so different.

Student: Like an idea is the same, and the translation[?]—tries to make it word for word. May have[?] been for difficult[?], but he didn't try to change the symbolism to fit British symbolism, by the British scholar that translated it?

SR: They—no.

Student: I was wondering if they changed the symbolism to fit say Japanese symbolism.

SR: No, no they—they don't. They try to, you know, be faithful to the original, you know, words, word by word, when they translate—translated it. Even Kumarajiva's translation, you know, who is very—his—his translation is—they say, you know, his translation is very not literal translation, they say, but actually it is very, you know, it is—you may say this—that is very literal translation. So, if they have original text, the Chinese scholar and Tibetan scholar, Nepalese scholars also—Nepal translation are very, you know, faithful to the word by words translation. And they discussed this word: he—"This word should be this word—translated from this word.” “No, that word." [Laughs] this kind of discussion is still going on [laughs] so that we should be faithful to the original text.

Student: And Dogen did this too?

SR: Dogen—Dogen Zenji did not translate.

Student: Commentary?

SR: Commentary, if commentary, yes. He expressed, you know, his way of understanding of this sutra. And each—almost all the time he’d write something, he referred to this sutra. And some two—at least two fascicles "Juki" and "Hokke Ten Hokke" is his own, you know, special understanding of—of this sutra. And "we should understand this way," he said.

Almost word—word by word translation. But Kumarajiva's, you know, contribution is—was that he—for an instance, there is one hundred gathas, you know, but Kumarajiva sometime put two, you know, gathas together so that they can understand it easily. As you must have seen, [in the Sanskrit,] one sentence—one long sentence, you know, divided in two, you know, because of the—because—so that to put them in gatha style. But Kumarajiva put the emphasis on more the meaning of the sutra; so for Chinese people, Kumarajiva's translation was easier—easy to understand. That—that was a big reason why this sutra was appreciated Chinese people so much.

91: "He was also excessively desirous of glory, but very fickle, so that he—so that the lessons dictated to him and his own reading fade from his memory as soon as learnt."

This—this is—already I explained. Dogen Zenji was very faithful to the—this sutra, you know, and he was very much impressed about—with those, you know, with those gathas. He is very strict with the—to have worldly desires as a Buddhist. And as a Buddhist we should not have even the desire to expect enlightenment. That was, you know, strict observation of this sutra, you may say. Of course, that was his character, you know. His character was so pure and lofty. And he didn't mind anything but truth. He would give whole his, you know, body and mind to the truth. That was his idea—his way.

The 92. "His name was Yasaskama—Yasaskama, by which he was known everywhere." Yasaskama means desirous of glory.

"By the accumulated merit of that good action, spotted as it was,"—but he helped, you know, people very much. So, with this merit he attained enlightenment.

93 "he propitiated thousands of kotis of Buddhas, whom he rendered ample honor. He went through the regular course—regular course of duties and saw the present Buddha Shakyamuni.

"He shall be the last to reach—he shall be the last to reach supreme enlightenment and become a Lord known by the family name of Maitreya, who shall educate thousands of kotis of creatures."

Maitreya was actually, you know, historical disciple—actually historical character and disciple of Buddha. Many stories are told about him. You know, his—Buddha's aunt who raised Buddha when he was young, gave a gold embroidered—kesa of gold—gold embroidery to Buddha.

[A portion of the tape is completely or nearly silent here, where he tells the story of the gold kesa.]

Student 1: Who wore it?

Student 2: No one would[?] wear it. [Laughter]

SR: Wore—no one wore it [laughter]. The golden[?]—the gold embroidered kesa but one disciple wear it—that was, you know, Ajita Maitreya, who will be—who is—who was supposed to be the last Buddha, who was supposed to attain enlightenment. After all of the disciples attained enlightenment, you know, he—he was something like this bodhisattva in his former life. He was—he was called "desirous of glory" you know. Something like ???. And Buddha was very ??? very glad with this[?] that he ??? wear, but, you know, maybe because of that, he received that kind of juki, and to be a last buddha [laughs].

This is, you know, interesting. Buddha was glad that he was—that he was not so good, you know. If you—if were—if I were Shakyamuni Buddha, I shall be very angry, maybe. I shall not be happy to—to see one of the disciple is not so good, treading wrong path. But Buddha was very patient [laughs], and you are very glad, if so, eventually he will attain enlightenment.

I think this is why, you know, Dogen Zenji always said, we will—all of us eventually will attain enlightenment. There is no need to, you know, to expect attainment. Sooner or later, everyone will attain enlightenment because we have Buddha nature. As a Buddhist, we must have this kind of big mind and big scale of practice—not matter of today or tomorrow [laughs], or this year or next year.

Those who are— “He shall be the last to reach superior enlightenment and become a Lord known by the family name by Maitreya, who shall educate thousands of kotis of creatures."

And 95: "He who then, under the rule of extinct Sugata, was so slothful—slothful” [Student helps with pronunciation, laughter] Okay [laughs, laughter] “was thyself, and it was I who then was the preacher of the law."

Manjusri was the preacher, and slothful one was Maitreya.

"As on seeing a foretoken of this kind I recognize to a sign such as I have seen manifested of yore, therefore and on that account I know—As on seeing foretoken of this kind I recognize a sign such as I have seen and at the place have" in some translation it says “at that place”—“manifested of yore, therefore and on that account I know,”

97: "That decidedly the chief of Jinas, the supreme king of the kings—kings of the Sakyas, the All-seeing, who knows the highest truth, is about to pronounce the excellent Sutra which I have heard before."

The same sutra you have heard[?] proclaimed. The highest truth is—is daiji. It’s translated dai jiki in Chinese scriptures. “The highest truth, is about to pronounce the excellent Sutra which I have heard before.”

This is a, you know, question the emperor Wu asked Bodhidharma: "What is the First Principle?" The First Principle. Bodhidharma said, "I don't know." "I don't know" is First Principle [laughs]. Do you understand? The—the First Principle, it cannot be known in term of good or bad, right or wrong, because it is both right and wrong.

"That very sign displayed at present is the proof of skillfulness of the leaders; the Lion of the Sakyas is to make an exhortations—exhortations, to declare the fixed nature of the law." The fixed—fixed nature of the law, true nature of the law or ultimate nature of the law.

"Be well prepared and well minded; join your hands:” put your hands in gassho[?] “join your hands: he who is affectionate and merciful to the world is going to speak, is going to pour the endless rain of the law and refresh those that are waiting for enlightenment.

"And if some should feel doubt, uncertainty, or misgiving in any respect, then the Wise One shall remove it for his children, the Bodhisattva—Bodhisattvas here striving after enlightenment." This is the last one—last part.

I think you must have understand nature of our teaching. In, you know, this is—this is the Oriental tree, you know. And you don’t know which way its root is going [laughs]. This is rather difficult for you to figure out which way the root is going. And if you know which way the root of Buddhism is going it may be easier to understand. And how the trunk of the tree of Buddhism is supported by the root.

There is some—there is characteristics in the way of making our effort. To which direction we make our effort is very interesting to know of for you maybe. When[?] human effort—if our human effort is directed, all—all of—all the same direction by all the human being, that is a dreadful destiny. Every—everyone should strive for in his, you know, own way, and everyone should find out his own way to develop himself. Even though each one of us making different effort, as long as we have Buddha Nature, as long as all the effort is supported by Buddha Nature, there is no problem. When we don't know that our—everyone's effort is supported by the same ground and attached to one’s own way, rejecting the others—rejecting or ignoring the others' way and in—insisting upon his own way, then that is confusion. So, we Buddhists, you know, put emphasis on each one's own way. Especially this sutra, put emphasis on each one's own way, and meaning of each one's own being. And at the same time, as you must have understood already, this sutra provide us a big, common ground for every one of us, where [some audio files end around here] we can enjoy our each—our own way—each of us own way.

And this is possible if you understand this truth. But usually, the people think that is not possible. "If you—if we become friendly with each other, you know, we will be lost. The only way to make, you know, to make heard is competition. Even if—if it’s necessary, we should fight or we should reject others' opinion. And we should stick to our own way." That is what we are doing, actually. Before you actually practice our way, you have this fear, but if you practice our way, there is no such problem at all, as you must have seen. Even—even faintest idea of this truth you have, then it will be a great help for—for you, I think. Because you have no this kind of idea, because you have never make this kind of effort, we are so unhappy. Now for a bodhisattva, to be unhappy is also good [laughs, laughter]. For usual person, to be unhappy is terrible thing [laughs].

If you’d like, I think the—the most difficult part of the sutra already finished. And next chapter will be the very interesting chapter, maybe. And so, if you read it, you will be very much interested in it. If you read it, it’s this kind of understanding; it may be very interesting. Good Devices, you know—chapter of skillfulness—skillful devices. In this sutra devices is more important than the First Principle. Usually, you know, people respect the First Principle rather than skillfulness—skillful devices. But in this Sutra, Buddha rather put emphasis on skillful devices. It means that Buddha put emphasis on mercy. How to help people with skillful devices is a most important point. And to find out each one's own position, and each one's own responsibility, and each one’s meaning of life, and to find the joy of life in the activity near at hand, or previous[?] attainment, is the most important point.

Thank you very much for listening to my tedious [laughs, laughter] lecture [laughs]. If you have question, please ask me. Hai.

Bill Shurtleff: You were talking about Dogen Zenji emphasizing or saying that eventually each person will attain enlightenment. The word "attain" we hear often, except that in chanting the Shingyo we say, "Mu toku i mu sho tok ko—No attainment because of no attainment."

SR: Umhum.

BS: And I find that it’s impossible for me to or I find myself clinging constantly to the idea of attaining something, imagining…

SR: Yeah.

BS: that if something’s going to happen. It seems that what the Shingyo is saying, "no attainment", and what Dogen is saying, "Don't worry, because you will all attain enlightenment," are very different understandings.

SR: Yeah, very different. But when we say "attainment," you know, the meaning actually is very different from [laughs] the usual connotation of attainment. Attainment—our attainment—by attainment we mean result—that is result. If you say, “This is cause,” that is cause, you know. So, if you—even though I say attainment that may be the practice [laughs], you know. We understand in that way. So, we say "tongueless tongue, wordless word". Word beyond word. But somehow, we—we must say something. So, sometime "attainment," sometime "practice." That is our way. So, you know [laughs], in that way you should listen to or read our scriptures.

If—when we describe something, we should follow the logical, you know, logical sequence. That is one way of—one side of the course[?]. When—so when Dogen Zenji says, "When one side is described, the other side is dark." We cannot describe both way. So, that is why we describe just one—one side of the Truth. But if you have ear to listen to it, eyes to read it, you know, you should be satisfied with one description, because you—you know there is the other side.

BS: The Shingyo on—on other points though like ignorance, shows us both sides...

SR: Umhum.

BS: Saying “no ignorance” and also “no annihilation…”

SR: Umhum. Yes.

BS: In that sense, there seems to be a completeness…

SR: Ah – yeah.

BS: In the words and in the same way, it would—it would seem to be no attainment and yet, constant effort toward…

SR: Yes, attainment.

BS: Attainment. Something like that. I mean it seems to come out really strongly on only one side…

SR: Umhum.

BS: No attainment.

SR: So, in our practice, you know, actually… [cough]… um
[audio ends]

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Checked, transcribed, and edited by Brian Fikes. Old file name 68-02-LS.6. Prepared for digital archive by DC 9-12. Verbatim version created by Peter Ford Dec. 2024 based on Engage Wisdom audio and Audio-2013.

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File name: 68-02-00-F: Lotus SĹŤtra No. I-6 (Verbatim) level problems with some of these 00s. DC added last section to transcript, starting at "The Shingyo [sutra] on other points" 10-31-2015. Q & A after lecture. Previously dated as Feb. 1968, but more likely this was given in the second half of the year.

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